Undisfellowshipped and clash: thanks for taking the time to reply. Sorry I just can't attend to this site as much, nor as often, as I'd like to.
Undf'ed: Great replies and sincerity in them. Much to reply to: About the circular reasoning, that was an expert deflection on your part. I'm used to seeing that kind of spotlight-shift from my JW friends . As far as the accuracy, let's compare: you're (presumably) bible-based, then point to the bible to justify beliefs. That's a 2-way circuit (which, by electricity's qualifications, isn't really a circuit). Knowledgable Catholics enjoy pointing to the Bible which so clearly points beyond itself to the church which sustains and interprets it (a full, true circuit). And since the Bible was written by the CC, using it to evangelize our non-Cathoic bretheren is like playing a home game. Home field-advantage!
You said, Was Jesus Christ's "energy" flowing through the Roman Catholic Church when the Church persecuted, tortured, and murdered people for trying to translate their own copies of the Scriptures?
Yes. If someone tried to break into your home and steal the very computer you were reading this on, would you not be compelled to protect yourself and your valuables? The protestant case has yet to be effectively made as to why it was necessary for vigilantes to extract the Bible from the CC. That's why it's clear that most non-catholics don't know much about Catholicism, because they don't know that a Catholic gets much more of God's Word at Mass than just the Bible (which by itself, the Mass is laden with). Our efforts, then, are to lift non-Catholics up to the full deposit of His sacred Word.
You said: "After all, all of the Apostle Paul's anscestors were Pharisees for hundreds of years until someone went AWOL recently and started this new Christian Religion."
Wow! You must then admit that Luther was equivalent to Christ in justifying switching Christian religions, which incidentally, is based on the fruit of the previous one. Since Luther et. al. were fallen-away Catholics, then their sweetest fruit could only be as sweet as the CC's least-rotten fruit. Then you'd have to explain from your basis (bible, right?) why/how Christ's teachings of Sola Scriptura/Fide are not only not mentioned by Christ, and not in the Bible, but somehow disappeared for 1500 years and magically reappeared. Sounds much like C.T. Russell resurrecting the dormant JW church after 1800 years, which the JW's cannot explain from the bible any more than any protestant can. (had to tie in a little JW tidbit since this is a JW forum )
Quote: So, Christ's Church is ANYWHERE where two or more True Christians gather together in Jesus' Name.
No, Christ is anywhere where 2 or more are gathered in His name. He did not say his CHURCH was. He is decidedly not where 2+ people are gathered against His name and His established teachings. So is Jesus among and blessing the JW's at Kingdom Hall? Was Jesus among Judas' gang as Judas was plotting to hand Him over? In your opinion, was Jesus there during the Crusades? (GASP!). How about in Mass now--where His precious Body and Blood are there to feed us (Rev 3:20)? If you truly believe your above quote, then you'll have no problem going to Mass on Sunday. After all, He's there like you said.
Quote: Also, how do you explain what happened when the Roman Catholics were PERSECUTING people who owned their own copy of the Scriptures, and who translated their own translation of the Scriptures?
How would banks react if you went in and ripped out all their chained pens? Many ambitious people did steal and attempt to translate bibles, and did so outside of ecclesiastical authority and therefore without the Holy Spirit's promised safeguard against error (infallability). Thus, obviously, many erroneous and dangerous errors were made. Those copies had to be destroyed or else the faithful would be poisoned by them, and the perpetraters had to be persecuted for plucking the fruit (Bible) from the tree (CC). Gee, sounds like something Eve did a few years ago...
